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#7556948 Mar 20, 2013 at 08:38 PM
Guild Officer
187 Posts
#7554567 Sam G wrote:


Have we made struggling a mistake in our education system, therefore a crime? What makes gaming fun is that struggling is not a mistake (in fact you SHOULD struggle).



I think that we forget that there is value in making mistakes and learning from them. Too often we see instructors who give a test to assess material presented, and then forget any kind of scaffolding between delivering the material and delivering the test. As rsmyth said, "Right now, the trend is to turn them into automatons or technicians that deliver content in such a way that test results increase. "

It makes the resulting assessment scores easier to tot up. However, we lose so much in that process. Where is the feedback, the ability to make and learn from mistakes, even the encouragement to risk making a mistake by experimenting and exploring some?

Part of flow, I think, is watching and learning from your mistakes. Die and do over. Respawn and try the quest a different way.
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#7557505 Mar 21, 2013 at 12:18 AM
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52 Posts
#7553619 grizzlybeals wrote:

I would caution also that trying to add game elements like points and badges, etc, as extrinsic motivators to activities that students already find enjoyable and intrinsically motivating can have the opposite effect, and undermine that intrinsic motivation.



I only added points as a last resort. After discussing the lack of engagement after gamifying my classes some recommended I try giving points to have kids level up to see if that would add a more game-like element. Badges had been offered throughout as a standards based grading element in place of a 1, 2, 3, or 4 rubric.

The kids I'm trying to reach are the ones who are NOT intrinsically motivated by schooling or even by Science (I know, hard to believe).
Al Gonzalez
Middle School Science Teacher
educatoral.com
Twitter educatoral
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#7557516 Mar 21, 2013 at 12:23 AM
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52 Posts
#7553708 Mina ZedWord wrote:

I recently read an article in the Winter issue of Virtual Education Journal that addresses what elements need to be in place in order for players to experience fiero (or at least make it more likely fiero will be achieved). I've hyperlinked to my Evernote clips from the article; you can access the entire article and the entire issue of VEJ at the link at the bottom of the note.

"Achieving Fiero Moments"



Thanks, Mina!
Al Gonzalez
Middle School Science Teacher
educatoral.com
Twitter educatoral
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#7557540 Mar 21, 2013 at 12:34 AM
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52 Posts
#7553788 byavits wrote:

I am wondering to what extent people think that competition is a necessary element for Fun, Flow and especially Fiero.

I must admit that I have a conscious bias toward cooperation over competition.

Any thoughts?



I prefer cooperation but do enjoy some forms of competition. The more vocal kids seem to thrive on competition, esp when it comes to games or gaming. In the classroom, to learn Science, I try to foster an atmosphere of sharing, collaborating, and cooperation. Sometimes in life we do need to compete, as in getting grants and things like that but I think kids engage in enough competitive tasks that my class doesn't have to be competitive.
Al Gonzalez
Middle School Science Teacher
educatoral.com
Twitter educatoral
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#7557568 Mar 21, 2013 at 12:44 AM
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52 Posts
#7555918 grizzlybeals wrote:

#7554567 Sam G wrote:


Our current educational game is "fun" for those who are successful, and those who struggle find it "tiresome and boring".



There is also the fact that education is not an "opt-in" by students, really. It is mandatory. The odds of people finding fun and play in something they're forced to do is probably less than those situations where they voluntarily opt-in.


Great points! I never thought of how much school is like a game! Thanks for that, Sam!

And yes, Grizzlybeals, school isn't opt in for a lot of kids and what person will continue playing a game day in and day out that they are bad at and don't feel successful or that they have any chance of success??!?

For those kids who aren't doing well at the game of school they lack purpose and autonomy so it's no wonder they aren't motivated!
Al Gonzalez
Middle School Science Teacher
educatoral.com
Twitter educatoral
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#7561916 Mar 21, 2013 at 07:09 PM · Edited over 6 years ago
Artisan
58 Posts
I found this game today. The concept & execution to me was intriguing. A library system made a game that would help them with a digitization indexing project by having people play a game that would help the library decipher words that were not correctly read during scanning in another language. Here are their screen shots: . If they can make this into a game that people are playing & enjoying then I have to be able to come up with a game that will engage my students around information literacy. I think my biggest question is what platform combined with my skills will bring the fun, flow, & fiero???
To each his own game ;)
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#7566284 Mar 22, 2013 at 05:41 PM
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18 Posts
So, Keller's ARCS relate to many important principles in education, including Fun and Fiero. (I wrote about Flow in another post).

Attention: this is where the stage is set for the Fun to come. The learner's attention is focused and her curiosity piqued. This could happen through a story or situation that is cognitively and/or emotionally engaging. In science, we might use a pedagogical technique known as the discrepant event: a demonstration of a phenomenon that seems to defy the learner's current understanding of the way things should work. The learner is motivated to go further, to figure out how this could happen.

Relevance: This is where the fun truly begins. The educational experience designer creates a environment in which the learner is offered goals that are intrinsically motivating because they are relevant to the learner in some way. Learner choice and customization/personalization of the experience are ways to increase the relevance of a particular activity or challenge.

Confidence: The activity remains Fun as long as the learner feels a sense of control over the experience, knows what is required to succeed, and feels capable of achieving that success.

Satisfaction: When the learner is intrinsically motivated to participate in a goal-oriented activity, the success at reaching that goal results in a Fiero moment. In educational theory, a Fiero moment is also known as a mastery experience. Mastery experiences lead to increased self-efficacy, or belief that one can succeed at similar tasks. Increased self-efficacy leads to greater interest and motivation to learn in that area, and ultimately predicts actual success. So...when we create experiences that result in learners having a Fiero moment, we are also improving their likelihood for future success and priming their attention for the next learning challenge

Digital games are a medium well-suited to excel in each of Keller's four motivational categories: Attention, Relevance, Confidence, and Satisfaction and therefore offer the educator a powerful platform for creating effective learning experiences.
--DAB
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#7568945 Mar 23, 2013 at 11:14 AM
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23 Posts
#7555918 grizzlybeals wrote:



There is also the fact that education is not an "opt-in" by students, really. It is mandatory. The odds of people finding fun and play in something they're forced to do is probably less than those situations where they voluntarily opt-in.



This makes me think of James P. Carse's Finite and Infinite Games, where he writes, "Whoever must play cannot play."

The Koster book A Theory of Fun speaks of boredom emerging when a task is either too hard to accomplish with current skill set or too easy (i.e. it's already been accomplished). The challenge is to find the sweet spot in between ....

--Richard
____________________________________________________________
Richard Smyth, Ph.D.
http://electrateprofessor.wordpress.com
rsmyth64@yahoo.com

"Perhaps my best years are gone. But I wouldn't want them back. Not with the fire in me now." --Samuel Beckett
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#7569334 Mar 23, 2013 at 01:03 PM
Herald
60 Posts
@ryansmith Sweet spot, indeed!

Finding that balance between easy fun and hard fun is one of the hardest aspects of gamification for me.

In reading interactive fiction, I easily become frustrated and give up if I have to spend too much time trying to figure out the right input commands to use to progress (especially if it happens early in the story and I have not become interested/invested in the story yet). But, if the game becomes too repetitive or I become able to foresee what will happen next, I quickly lose interest. I have little time and a lot of other things (and stories) vying for my attention.

It's the same with students. Too easy or too hard, and they'll bail or tune out.
a.k.a. Tanya Sasser
English Instructor
Jacksonville State University
@TanyaSasser
Remixing College English
“I'm trying to free your mind, Neo. But I can only show you the door. You're the one who must walk through it.” ~Morpheus, The Matrix
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#7574362 Mar 24, 2013 at 05:29 PM
Artisan
58 Posts
I also have a hard time with the interactive fiction and navigation. Kind of takes all the fun out of it. I was thinking of trying it with my students but didn't want to introduce the frustration factor with my first "game".

I recently found a great game that is only in demo phase that I want to use to boost reading in my school. See it/ try it here : Game of Books

Here is a screen shot- sorry couldn't load it directly as it does not have a URL- Game of Books Screenshot

This I think could capture some fun but I am thinking not so much the fiero & flow- it's not that kind of game.

I think that one of my issues with creating a game that has the fun flow & fiero for my classes is that I would like it to be digital and I do not think I have the technical skills (yet lol) to produce it. Maybe I need to start thinking nondigital.
To each his own game ;)
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#7574530 Mar 24, 2013 at 06:14 PM
Herald
60 Posts
#7574362 Lleshrad wrote:

I also have a hard time with the interactive fiction and navigation. Kind of takes all the fun out of it. I was thinking of trying it with my students but didn't want to introduce the frustration factor with my first "game".



IF doesn't have to be parser-based (though some die-hard IF fans insist that it does). You can build IF that uses hyperlinks instead of player input. Look at some of Emily Short's work for examples. There's some really great tools for creating IF (or Choose Your Own Adventure, as some would term hyperlink-based adventure texts) that don't require coding knowledge. Inkelwriter and Twine are two really popular ones.
a.k.a. Tanya Sasser
English Instructor
Jacksonville State University
@TanyaSasser
Remixing College English
“I'm trying to free your mind, Neo. But I can only show you the door. You're the one who must walk through it.” ~Morpheus, The Matrix
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#7575183 Mar 24, 2013 at 08:48 PM
Initiate
7 Posts
Lots of great discussion on the 3 F's. Since I don't teach a course per se, it's hard for me to answer the actual question that was posed. I'm facilitating a book group at the moment where we might be approaching flow during some of our discussions.

I know I've experienced flow during learning, but as someone said (Sam G maybe?), most of us are probably in the category of people who enjoy learning, so that's probably not that surprising.

I've definitely experience flow playing basketball (and soccer and hockey etc.), and maybe the best flow and fiero has come when I was playing pick-up games. I think there is something about executing and communicating well even when you haven't practiced together. It's an awesome feeling to execute a give and go with someone you've never met before. I imagine that raiding in WOW is similar - you may be playing with a group of people you don't know, but everyone figures out how to fit into their appropriate role to make the group work better.

Another great place for flow and fiero is playing music in any kind of ensemble. When the players reach a level of competence and can come together to play something, giving it a bit of their own interpretation, it's pretty awesome.

So if we think a little more broadly about fun, flow, and fiero, we may be able to foster them more effectively in learning situations. One of my colleagues is interested in figuring out how to make his philosophy class more playful. He's looking at games, but that isn't necessarily the only way to go about it.
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#7575547 Mar 24, 2013 at 11:00 PM
Artisan
58 Posts
#7574530 Mina ZedWord wrote:


IF doesn't have to be parser-based (though some die-hard IF fans insist that it does). You can build IF that uses hyperlinks instead of player input. Look at some of Emily Short's work for examples. There's some really great tools for creating IF (or Choose Your Own Adventure, as some would term hyperlink-based adventure texts) that don't require coding knowledge. Inkelwriter and Twine are two really popular ones.



Thanks for the info. I will check those out.

From Truegrit: So if we think a little more broadly about fun, flow, and fiero, we may be able to foster them more effectively in learning situations. One of my colleagues is interested in figuring out how to make his philosophy class more playful. He's looking at games, but that isn't necessarily the only way to go about it.

I am able to obtain fun, flow, & fiero in my classes (not neccesarily together or with all students obtaining all either) without gaming but I would really like to try out gaming to see if it will all fall into place. If I can use gaming to accomplish the learning objectives and incorporate fun, flow, & fiero for the majority, all the better.

I recently came across Genuis Hour (see Genius Hour Explanation
and this seems to be another way to have fun, flow, & fiero in the classroom . Some teachers have used it to incorporate their students making games into the classroom.

To each his own game ;)
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