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#8103742 Jul 08, 2013 at 12:58 PM · Edited 6 years ago
Guild Officer
354 Posts
After you've taken a look at the rgMOOC site and looked at the discussions happening there, what stands out to you? What opportunities and possibilities do you see possible in your own courses?

Here's Sherry Jones' invitation to come over and play.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpbOAU3vkzE
twitter @kzenovka
www.center4edupunx
Games MOOC Instructor and Designer
Google + gamesmooc@gmail.com



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#8109455 Jul 09, 2013 at 12:13 PM
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561 Posts
As I said in another thread in this forum, Grasshopper Post in rgMOOC thread 7/9/2013

I signed up for this rgMOOC at the beginning and have gone back often as a lurker, what I found that stands out for me was what I call,

(1) the “3E” factor, the “excitement, expectations and encouragement” which made you really want to be part of it. Part of that was,

(2) the “help” button and the straight talk about what was going to be done that week, and the specific and clear directions. I guess it is because I used to write policies and procedures for prisons that I am so focused on well-written and understandable directions for participating in anything. And to round it out to three,

(3) the use of what I would call an editable Wiki, to allow the participants to participate in real time with a side chat bar, to discuss and describe and evaluate the games they were assigned to play that first week was something I would like to figure out how to do in my classes, because of the real-time online editing and chat, it included the whole group of participants. Here is a “Snagit” [if you don’t have that software you should, I can’t live without it] of a section of that first week’s Public Pad:

I am posting this because you might need to be a participant (signed in) to see this since it allows all members to real-time edit the essay.

url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/83214692@N03/9243837224/][/url]
Public Pad in the rgMooc with Chat by grasshopper98, on Flickr

For this rgMOOC this works well, however, here is the technology I don’t understand, so if someone can answer it, please do:
“Is there a way to see each individual participant’s edits apart from others?”

I guess I would be concerned in a class where there is a grade, how you would go about grading an individual participant, those “group grades” or “participant grades” generally put the load on a few good students to carry the ones who don’t do much but at least show up.

In a Wiki that I run part of, for an online game company (under contract) regarding customer support, any document that is changed there is an edit panel that the person who made the change is identified, the date and time, and they write what they changed, example, “changed access information for Digital River account due to update.” I don’t think there is a way to do this in this rgMOOC as it is collaborative and not a graded class. In our online classes we can see all the “discussion” posts of one student separated from the others so we can grade them as an individual.

What could I use it in my classes (face-to-face, hybrid, online)? My online is structured by instructional designers so not much change is allowed. However, I have basically full control of my face-to-face and hybrids as long as I teach the competencies and can prove it (course mapping). There is no "Wiki" option in the platform we use (Desire2Learn) or at least I haven't found one. I would need permission from someone with a higher pay grade than mine to set it up.

Here is where I think it would work: In my Introduction to Chicano/a Studies class this fall, I am using comic books, part of my interaction with "Comics in the Classroom" via "Denver Comic Con" where I was one of 100 educators chosen to participate. I am assembling a collection of 25-100 comic books that depict in some way a Mexican American, Chicano/a, Hispanic, in any capacity (there is a list, there are about 150 comics on the list). My students would be taking comics and reading them to look for stereotypical depictions, the role the character has in the comic and the effect it may have had on the young readers at the time it was published.

It was my intention to have them rotate the comics on a weekly basis between their "pods" of three, I am thinking I could get a Wiki and have an open edit essay on EACH comic book (maybe with the chat) and they could develop an essay on each character, it might in fact be publishable. There is a book on "Indians in Comics" Indians in Comics but not "Chicanos/as in Comics." American Indians are developing their own comic books to depict the culture correctly, and there is one Chicano artist doing the same thing.
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#8112465 Jul 09, 2013 at 11:14 PM
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110 Posts
@grasshopper98
I have not used Public Pad, but you can do a similar thing with Google Docs. I *believe* you can track edits somehow, although it's been awhile since I've done that. (There's at least a way of commenting on the document that tracks who make the comments.)

D2L doesn't have a wiki. I casually asked our IT department about a wiki, and they didn't seem all that excited about it. Basically, wikis are really hard on IT people, and they'd rather avoid the hassle. If Google Docs (might be Google Drive now, they keep changing their name) doesn't suit you, check out PB Works. They have a free (although somewhat limited) version for educators.
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#8112487 Jul 09, 2013 at 11:21 PM
Guild Officer
10 Posts
I may repeat some of what Grasshopper98 has already said, but here's my take on what I've seen in the past few days of lurking around the rgMOOC.
I also love the big red help button. It provides a nice safety blanket, which i would definitely want my students to have if I was making something like this a required component of my class. As an ENG 122 instructor, I liked seeing that students were asked to read a range of articles that made up a conversation of ideas about the topic I was focused on (the first one), and then add their own application of those ideas based in a persuasive style. I already see it meeting the basic needs of my curriculum, even though I come at the concepts from a completely different angle. I liked that the expectations were very neatly and clearly laid out because I have definitely noticed that my students at this level need strong structure to be able to let themselves struggle with the skills. That said, I feel like the level of control and structure my inhibit students from sinking into the immersion that a good game gives, if that makes any sense.
I was wishing as I looked over this course that I had time to take it. I think the range of choices is great, and the topic is definitely interesting. I can see using this as an assignment in my class to get students engaged in an academic conversation, and I definitely see the value of the videos they've done. It gives students great guidance.
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#8115210 Jul 10, 2013 at 12:53 PM
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561 Posts
#8112465 blueAppaloosa wrote:

@grasshopper98
I have not used Public Pad, but you can do a similar thing with Google Docs. I *believe* you can track edits somehow, although it's been awhile since I've done that. (There's at least a way of commenting on the document that tracks who make the comments.)

D2L doesn't have a wiki. I casually asked our IT department about a wiki, and they didn't seem all that excited about it. Basically, wikis are really hard on IT people, and they'd rather avoid the hassle. If Google Docs (might be Google Drive now, they keep changing their name) doesn't suit you, check out PB Works. They have a free (although somewhat limited) version for educators.



Yeah, I mentioned "Wiki" to my IT department and got the same reaction. You are correct that Google keeps changing things, and with all the concerns about all of your information being "harvestable," may students are more comfortable within the platform for the class, like Desire2Learn or Blackboard, because it is a contained system. I will check into the Google Drive. I do use it within the parameters of doing contracted reviews of online classes for a local college and reporting if they are ready to go in the Google Docs set up for that. It works well but I am going in on a universal id for all of us, no personal exposure.

Question: Do you think that with all the concerns about lack of privacy and internet as well as smart devices harvesting of information (like we didn't know they did that, duh) will make students think twice about going to an exterior website to complete classwork that everyone can see?
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#8115244 Jul 10, 2013 at 12:59 PM
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#8112487 StoriesforNick wrote:


I also love the big red help button. It provides a nice safety blanket, which i would definitely want my students to have if I was making something like this a required component of my class.

I liked that the expectations were very neatly and clearly laid out because I have definitely noticed that my students at this level need strong structure to be able to let themselves struggle with the skills.

That said, I feel like the level of control and structure my inhibit students from sinking into the immersion that a good game gives, if that makes any sense.

I was wishing as I looked over this course that I had time to take it. I think the range of choices is great, and the topic is definitely interesting. I can see using this as an assignment in my class to get students engaged in an academic conversation, and I definitely see the value of the videos they've done. It gives students great guidance.



Answering in turn,

I love that big red help button too. As I was starting to think about actually doing the work after I signed up in May, that was the first thing I clicked on, it was something familiar and inviting.

I liked the way it was laid out too, so easy to follow every week's activities.

I agree with you that there is a give and take regarding structure and flexibility, I am more flexible in my classes and every once in a while I have a student that has to have structure or they practically hyper-ventilate. So, I have to build in both, almost a two track, not easy in a structured game.

As I have said before, I really wish I had the time to take it, and I hope it stays up for a long time, after it is finished. I have gone to it often looking at the assignments, and the structure. . . just too many balls in the air right now.
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#8115435 Jul 10, 2013 at 01:38 PM
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110 Posts
"Question: Do you think that with all the concerns about lack of privacy and internet as well as smart devices harvesting of information (like we didn't know they did that, duh) will make students think twice about going to an exterior website to complete classwork that everyone can see?"

I find it amusing that the people freak out about Google, who's primary interest in your data is targeting ads more precisely, are the same people who post everything on Facebook. Facebook has much more "evil" ToS, including claiming IP rights to everything uploaded to their site (images, info, etc), and selling personal info to third parties. They also "allow" companies to get around their "privacy" settings, so even things you post as "private" can be found by potential employers.

But, to answer your question, students seem far less concerned about this type of privacy than us older folk. They accept the privacy violations as an acceptable trade-off for the use of the service. This is how it's always been for them, and many have never experienced anything bad with it, so why worry?

For some reason classwork seems to be the exception. (I have theories as to why, and it's something art programs have dealt with even before the internet.) Both Google and PBWorks will allow you to share Docs/pages with only certain people, so they could be shared within the class but not with the outside world. (My caveat is that sharing these projects with the outside world is actually beneficial to the students non-withstanding.)

But, I agree with you that students seem more open to using an LMS for this type of stuff than anything else. I'm trying to leverage my LMS as much as possible, but they do have limitations. No wiki-like features is a big one, and a very limited layout/structure is another.
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#8115522 Jul 10, 2013 at 01:53 PM · Edited 6 years ago
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#8115435 blueAppaloosa wrote:


But, I agree with you that students seem more open to using an LMS for this type of stuff than anything else. I'm trying to leverage my LMS as much as possible, but they do have limitations. No wiki-like features is a big one, and a very limited layout/structure is another.



I agree the younger you are the more you take the intrusion onto your first amendment rights as the norm. And they also seem to want to keep their social media and their online classwork separated.

I can give a real example, I had a Student Learning Project in 2010 in the Spring where I was teaching Anthropology of Folklore, I wanted a Facebook page, had to actually go through the human research review at the college to even get that. So I set it up, I had at least ten experts, from several with Ph.Ds in Folklore or Professors teaching it to experts on Joseph Campbell and authors of books on the subject ready to interact with the students.

So here is what happened: (1) we let students set up Facebook accounts with not their real name if they wanted it that way (2) the first weekly discussion they had to post in Desire2Learn (college platform) AND on the Facebook area (3) from the second week on they had their choice. Result: Not one student posted or ever went back to the Facebook page. They basically told me they want to do their college class work on place and interact with their friends on social media. We also had Twitter, they didn't use it either after the first time.

I refer this to this as the "Wal-Mart Syndrome" that is if you need to get a lot of things that would require different specialty stores, it is easier to go to Wal-Mart and get everything done at one time in one location and then go hang out with your friends and family elsewhere.

So, to get student to go to a different website to complete required classwork will always be an uphill battle. At least, from my experience :(

I covered this in a slide show for a conference, when I got to Facebook and Twitter I asked the audience how many participated the second week, no one ever said, "none," and we need to really know our audience as we attempt to gamifiy our classes.

Playing the Game and Other Tools of Engagement
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#8115659 Jul 10, 2013 at 02:18 PM
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110 Posts
OK, finally had some time to poke around the site so I can comment on it some. I couldn't find the discussions, so maybe you need to actually login for those?

I like the overall structure, especially providing a range of readings/games/etc for students to choose from for each lesson. As an overachiever myself, I'd probably try to read/experience them all, which might be a bit much for the timeframe (although I could probably go back later). The downside I see here is "decision paralysis". There are so many choices which one do I choose? I can see this being a problem for students (especially those who've just come out of high school), who may simply choose to do nothing. It also seems a bit lazy to me; as a teacher I try to tailor my resources to be just what the students need, and no more. While I love the idea, I think this would probably work better in higher level classes, which I don't usually get to teach. (Or, possibly as an English class, where critical discussion is part of the expectation.)

I found the "secret agent" thing a bit cheesy. The good part is that it's not over-done, and those parts are largely skippable. Because the structure is so consistent, it's easy to just scroll past those parts and find the useful information.

I only skimmed the content, but it seems well thought out. I was happy to see that Ian Bogost is indeed included in the readings, and that his book was listed on the syllabus. As was said above, I hope this course remains available after the end of the summer, because I'd love to peruse the readings at a slower pace.

I still want to sit down and actually go through a lesson to see more about how each day is structured, but that may have to wait a week or two.

As for applying these to my own courses, I'd have to think on it some. I am organizing some hybirds for fall, so seeing the way this is structured is particularly interesting to me. I like the basic breakdown of the lessons (step 1, 2, 3, 4), which is consistent from lesson to lesson. I like how each step is always similar between lessons (step 1, watch this video, choose some readings; step 2, play a game; step 3, write some responses; step 4, participate in conversation). I will probably try to use this format, although the steps themselves will be different.

I also like how the main page shows all the lessons, and the help button. I'm not sure I can replicate this in D2L, but I will probably try.
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#8119582 Jul 11, 2013 at 09:12 AM
Guild Officer
354 Posts
Discussions for the rgMOOC

If you click on any rgMOOC Week square, you will see # 3 - Directive Co-op (highlighted link). You can just click on # 3 to enter the mightybell forum.

Lurkers will still need to register as participants to be able to post or read other people's posts on mightybell.

I hope this helps.

twitter @kzenovka
www.center4edupunx
Games MOOC Instructor and Designer
Google + gamesmooc@gmail.com



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#8167067 Jul 20, 2013 at 07:42 PM
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#8115659 blueAppaloosa wrote:

I like the overall structure, especially providing a range of readings/games/etc for students to choose from for each lesson. As an overachiever myself, I'd probably try to read/experience them all, which might be a bit much for the timeframe (although I could probably go back later). The downside I see here is "decision paralysis". There are so many choices which one do I choose? I can see this being a problem for students (especially those who've just come out of high school), who may simply choose to do nothing.


I really like the richness of choice here, but I agree that it could be overwhelming. It might help to give students a minimum number of articles to read or games to play. Our fifth grade science teachers gather a variety of videos and other resources on specific topics and sometimes let students choose which ones to view/read. I feel like our students would need a clear task after each viewing/reading to show that they did it: a short summary, create a five question quiz, define three vocabulary words, something like that.
Kristina Thoennes
Media Coordinator (a.k.a. Library Teacher)
Mooresville Intermediate School, NC

"Never give up, never surrender!" Commander Taggart, Galaxy Quest
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#8179572 Jul 23, 2013 at 12:22 PM
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561 Posts
#8167067 Kamoreo wrote:


I really like the richness of choice here, but I agree that it could be overwhelming. It might help to give students a minimum number of articles to read or games to play. Our fifth grade science teachers gather a variety of videos and other resources on specific topics and sometimes let students choose which ones to view/read. I feel like our students would need a clear task after each viewing/reading to show that they did it: a short summary, create a five question quiz, define three vocabulary words, something like that.



I agree that it could be overwhelming, in many areas of this fantastic MOOC I am overwhelmed and I think I know what I am doing! It really is difficult sometimes to make a game, or class design, that fits the age level, educational level and is challenging enough for the advanced as well as easy enough you don't lose the beginners.
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